Show: The Fishing Show Station: KNCO File: 11:7.mp3 Air date: 2026-11-07 Source: OpenAI whisper-1 · shrunk from 98.9 MB to 12.4 MB --- transcript --- Good evening. This is Denis Peirce. We're live here on Friday evenings with the KNCO Fishing and Outdoor Report. I think we're, John, we are followed by Nevada Union Football again this evening after the show starting right after seven o'clock. But anyways, it's, I guess this is the first show for the month of November. We're into fall fishing and what we're going to be doing on tonight's program is I've got a really good technical guest, Denny Rickards. Denny's been on the show a number of times through the years, through the decades. The man is a wealth of technical information about fishing and still waters. In fact, his website is Fly Fishing Still Waters, but we're going to get into all that kind of stuff. But we're going to be talking fall fishing and fly fishing in lakes in the fall. That's going to be the interview of tonight's show starting at 6.15. Before we get any further into the program, I'd like to thank our sponsors, Dr. Jerry Chan and his daughter, Dr. Tiffany Chan. Together they are the Chan Family Optometry Practice. They are located at 360 Sierra College Drive. But if you're looking for quality family eye care and a family business that, Jerry was born and raised here in Nevada County as well as Tiffany, and in fact, Jerry used to play football for Nevada Union High School back in the 1960s. But they are dedicated members of the community. We'll just leave it at that. They're here and they've been here and they care. Great people. They take care of all of my family's vision needs and we wouldn't go anywhere else but Chan Family Optometry. Second sponsor, as always, is TrollingFlies.com, the home of Arctic Fox Trolling Flies, Jay Fair Trolling Flies, lots and lots of stuff about trolling flies. It's a Jay Fair time up at Eagle Lake. The flies that have been going out through the website, TrollingFlies.com, has been aimed so much at the Jay Fair brand and Eagle Lake, really, really. It's the season up there. Once you get into November, it gets a bit chilly up there at Eagle Lake, but the fishing is tremendous in the bitter cold weather that you get up at Eagle Lake. Night lows are down into the 20s. We've got a stretch of warm weather coming here this week, this coming week, that is going to be, might be the last really good stuff, but I got a weather report for this week down at Mammoth Lakes, 60 degrees in the afternoon. Penn Valley, I think, is going to be well up into the 60s, but we've got a good window of opportunity coming this week and we ought to use it one way or another. I think I'm going to go back up to Stampede and try it up there again, because the brown trout fishing up there is actually picking up a bit. We're going to be trolling with flies. Anyways, let's, the program, before we get into our guest on the program this evening, got a call this afternoon from Dan McDonald, and people who are long-time listeners of the show will remember Dan occasionally comes on pretty much during the trout season. He maintains a cabin down at DeJune Lake Loop, which is north of Mammoth Lakes, about a half hour's drive, but it's like 7,000, 8,000, it is high up in the Sierras, but Dan has been up there fishing, because the season down there for trout fishing in lakes ends November 15th, so he's been trying to get it back, get in as much fishing as he can prior to the end of the season that's coming up here, right around the corner. But the point being, Dan has been fishing a lot, yesterday, he was fishing at Grant Lake, which is one of the lakes on the DeJune Lake Loop, and did really well, caught a really good size brown and a good size rainbow out of Grant. He was fishing from shore, and he was doing a thing called fan casting. He's got a spinning gear, and he's throwing a Rapala, and what he does is he basically, think of the shore of the lake as a clock, and the shore is running from 3 o'clock through 9 o'clock. He's casting at 9, 30, 10 o'clock, 11, 12, 1, 2, and 3, so he's standing at one spot on the shore, casting hard to the left, then a little bit more, more, more, until he's out toward the middle, and then keeps moving the cast over until he's going parallel to the shore to his right. That's called fan casting. Once you've done that, then he takes and hikes up, you know, 20 yards or so up the bank, and starts the process over again, but caught a couple of really nice rainbow that he said was plump and healthy. He caught a really nice brown, and it was, their main tributary to Grant Lake is a thing called Rush Creek, and you're not allowed to fish where the water is actually flowing within the lake. You have to get beyond that to be technically lake fishing there, and up close to where the creek was coming in, he caught a brown trout, but he said it was a nice, long brown trout, but the knock on it was, it was skinny. He said this thing had finished spawning, had moved out of the creek, back into the lake, and the point I wanted to make was, these browns are false spawners, and they want to run up the tributary streams in order to spawn, and the same is true there at Grant Lake, as it is at Stampede, or Boca, or Jackson Meadows, or Donner Lake, you name it, the place, if it's got browns, this is the false spawning time, if there's water in the creeks. If there's not water in the creeks yet, a lot of them will be staging out from that, but it is brown trout season out there, is the point I wanted to make. He was up at Lake Mary, which is, I think, about 9,000 feet, I think the town of Mammoth is close to 8, and Lake Mary is a thousand foot higher than that, but he was up there boat fishing, and in an afternoon, caught 16 real nice rainbows up there. He also has fished at some of the other lakes, Silver Lake, which is another one of the June Lake loop, but point being, the man has gone out and been rewarded with excellent fishing, all the different places that he's been going recently up there in the really high country. Now he's, that east side over there has got a lot of elevation stuff, lakes at 6,000, 7,000, 8,000, 9,000 feet, and that whole zone through there has been fishing very well. The other question I asked him, are any of the fall colors still around, and he said no. All the leaves are off the trees down there at that elevation, and he said all you're looking at is pine trees with the gray bark and the green pine needles, and he said it looks like winter's here. There is snow in the higher country all around him down there, but he said there's no snow down at lake level and the town of June Lake currently, but point being, that fall fishing, cold water stuff, high elevation, and the fish really on a bite at the last of the season. Now's the time. I don't expect anybody's going to hop in their car to drive to Mammoth tomorrow, but the same situation in our area, heading up to the upper elevations while you still can, the fishing is excellent in the lakes. Why don't we take our first commercial break, and when we come back, we hope to have Denny Rickerts with us, and the topic is going to be still water fishing in the fall, focused on the Oregon area, but we're going to cover a lot of different things, but we'll be back after a word from our sponsors. Heads up NID customers, a new way to manage your water account is coming this January, and it's designed to make your life a little easier. Say hello to NID's new customer portal. 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We're back with the KNCO Fishing and Outdoor Report, and our guest for this evening is Denny Rickards, and I consider him one of the most technically qualified, if not technical fishermen and technical interview that I get on my show from time to time. But Denny owns the website flyfishingstillwaters.com. He's invented a whole wide range of still water fly patterns, specifically really aimed a lot at the high desert lakes from the Cascades and the Sierras eastward. But he has also developed fly lines as well as fly rods for the Cortland Line Company, and specifically aimed at freshwater still water fishing. Denny Rickards, welcome back to the program. Thank you, Dennis. Nice being with you. It's always a pleasure having you back, Denny. Now you've lived in California up until what, the early 90s? I think I moved to Oregon when I left Maubelle. That was 1984. Wow, okay. So it's been a while. You have made your life up there on the east side of the Cascades in southern Oregon, correct? Yep, on Upper Klamath Lake. What I would like to focus our discussion on here is fall fishing on the east side of the Sierras, east side of the Cascades, and the high desert area out. When does the fall, what I consider the transition between too warm in the summer and too cold in the winter, when does that transition generally start there on the east side of the Cascades? It's right around the corner, Dennis, and it's all geared to water temperature. Whatever the higher elevation lakes are going to get colder quicker, your lower elevation lakes, and I would say those that are under 4,000 will stay warmer longer, which means you have an extended season, more or less. Okay. What is the general elevation along, is that Highway 97 that goes up the east side there? Yeah. Yeah. What's the general elevation of, say, Bend, Oregon, or Fort Klamath, or Klamath Falls, I should say? Well, here on Upper Klamath, we're at 42, I want to say Bend is maybe a couple hundred feet higher. Okay. I'm not sure exactly, but right around that area. Yeah, the 4,000 foot level, generally speaking. Yep. Yep. And, how much high elevation stuff is there? Is Diamond like what you would consider high elevation? No, Diamond is, well, it's higher than where we are here, I'm going to say that's probably around 5,500, because they get more snow over there than what we get here. Okay, but throughout that whole Highway 97 from Klamath Lake north, there's just lakes all over the place, if you take and get off the main highway a bit, and get off the beaten path, there are just, there's a lot of reservoirs there, but I think there's a bunch of natural lakes as well, correct? That's correct, and there's at least six that I wrote about in one of the books that I wrote on 50 of the best lakes in the west, not the best, but of the best, and there's six lakes within a 25, 30 minute drive of Bend that hold 25, 30 pound trout. Wow. That's big. That is, that's bigger than just big. I didn't realize they got that big up there. Yeah. Could you mention a few of them? East Lake, Palina Lake, Wickiup, let's see, there's one that I can't remember the name of it, but it's out of the Sisters area, and that's at least four of them, and of course Upper Klamath is in that category down here. Miller Lake, which is up out of Chemult, has 20 pound, 25 pound browns in it. Most of these lakes, it's not the rainbow, other than Upper Klamath, they're all brown trout fisheries in terms of size. Okay, so the browns, okay, they're, all right, they're the king of the size range up there. Are we yet at the peak of brown trout fishing, or is it prior to now, later than now? How do you time the brown trout? Every year is different. The precipitation's different, temperature's different, but if you were going to tell somebody in 2027 you wanted to go brown trout fishing in that zone through there, what month would you send them up? Probably, you know, you're going to have to look at what kind of winter we have. Like this past winter was really dry, and so we didn't get the precipitation or the snowpack, and to give you an example, Upper Klamath Lake, which usually, and I would say most of the other lakes, it's relative to the altitude how high up they are, but Upper Klamath Lake was really warm as we got into the May-June time frame, and because there wasn't a lot of water coming in, what they did is they held onto the water, which means the lake warmed quicker, and they had a banner year on that lake this year of fish between 10 and 20 pounds. I mean, I haven't seen it since I've lived here, that many big fish that came into the spring-fed inlets, and your brown trout, they can take colder temperatures, but for a guy who's looking to do whatever kind of lake or wherever it's at, more so, not so much on streams and rivers, but on still water, you've got to look at the water temperatures, Dennis, because it controls the fish's feeding behavior, what depth they're going to be, where they're going to be, how they react to your presentation, when they spawn, everything is geared to water temperatures, so the colder the water, and I'm talking about degrees of where it's under 40, 40 or under, or the low 40s, for a guy that's going to fish a lake with water temperatures that cold, you better set your time frame for midday, because the fish are going to wait for that water to warm, and it's going to be like somewhere after 10, 11 o'clock, and it'll last until about 2 o'clock, and right after 2 o'clock, it's going to start going the other way and cooling down again, so that's going to be your bite, so this time of year, if someone still has a hankering, and you've got to hit a lake that's still open, you want to concentrate your efforts, not early, not late, but more in the after 9, 10 o'clock time frame, that's when you'll find the best bite right now. Now, would you be targeting most of your efforts, at least at the beginning of that time zone, in real shallow water along the edges? Absolutely, because as you get into the fall time of the year, trout know that winter's coming, and your shoreline areas are the richest food-bearing regions in any lake, so the trout are going to start moving into shallow water, Diamond Lake is a perfect example, it's probably the most popular lake here in Oregon, but they'll move from the mid-depths out in the middle, where it's 10, 12 feet deep, down around the weed beds, and they'll move into the shallows, into the 6 to 10 foot range, and I mean, the fishing in the fall on that lake is exceptional, and I think most lakes, I'll give you an example, when I was up fishing Paulina here a few years back, mid-day fishing was not good, you had to wait until the latter part of the day, because that's when big browns feed, they feed early and late, they don't feed mid-day, they go down and honker down into the depths where it's warmer for them, and when it's time to eat, they're coming into the shallows, so if you have a weather pattern as you get into early fall, a weather pattern like wind, or maybe even rain or whatever, when the barometer settles down, even if it's low, those big fish are going to move into the shoreline areas, and that's where guys should be looking for them, you want to fish where trout feed, not where they rest, not where they hold, and that's deep, you want to fish the shallow areas, because there's a saying that I use when I'm guiding clients, just remember trout feed shallow and rest deep, so spend your time fishing where the trout are going to be when they want to eat, and that's shoreline areas and the top foot of the water. Excellent advice, excellent advice. Do you time your fishing based on weather fronts coming in, like if you were going to fish next week, would you be looking at the weather map, and how would you choose to fish if there's a storm front coming in, say, mid to late next week? I wouldn't. I'm staying home. I learned a long time ago, in fact, when I was doing a show there at Cal Expo, there was a fellow who did the weather for KCR TV there, and he came up to my booth, and we got to talking about weather patterns and the barometer and all that, and I told him, and I've written about it in all the books that I've done, that 29.9 is usually the point where you go below that, fish start going deeper and away from the feeding zone, and he said, you know, Denny, I won't argue with that point, he said, I agree with you, but there's something that I don't think you know, and what he told me, and I found out that what he said was true, he says, it's not where the barometric pressure is, even though it goes down, it's going to put fish on the bottom. He says, what trout do not like, and anglers need to know this, it's the moving barometer, either going up or going down, that trout don't like because they have to make adjustments for it. He says, when the barometer is moving, even when it's rising after a storm, you'll find the bite is not good, but he says, you can get down into 29.5, 29.6, and he says, if the barometric pressure holds and stays in that range, your trout will come back, won't be as good as if it's higher, but you can catch fish. Well, I was on a lake up in Nevada, and we tested that there, and he was absolutely correct, the barometer was 29.5, it had already rained, but it was holding right there, and so we thought, let's test it, and we went out, and we did catch fish, we didn't kill them, but we were hooking fish, and then when the barometer started to rise, the bite went off until it settled and stopped again, and the bite returned, so it's just something guys need to know, but when I hear that there's a storm coming, I cancel my trips, I tell guys, uh-uh, we'll go another day, because otherwise we're going for a boat ride. Fish will go deep, and they won't feed, Dennis. Now, you said the barometer steadying out, is that a matter of minutes, hours, or days of steady? It could be any one of those three. When a barometer is moving, this is what he told me, when it's moving, that means a fish has to adjust to its gas bladder at a depth, and they won't feed when it's moving. He says when it stabilizes and holds, it could be for 10 minutes, it could be for a half hour, it could be for an hour, it could be for a day, or maybe even two days, if it's an extended storm and it's coming in, if it holds at that level, he says you can still get fish to take. It won't be easy, but you can get them to take. When it's moving, stay home. Go in, do something else, have lunch, read a book, but fishing is not going to be good, and that's what I've found. But your comment that they have to adjust their air bladder, that explains it. That if they can set their air bladder and have it continue to feel good, rather than having to continuously change it relative to discomfort, that would explain the whole situation. Yeah, when I was doing that show in Sacramento and a lot of the other shows, I used to do the aquarium tank, which is maybe six foot deep. It's a long tank, about 40-50 feet long, and probably six to eight feet wide, and they had trout in this tank, and I was up there explaining to the audience, when I would make a cast, watch how the fish react to it. Well, I was in Denver this one time and it was snowing outside. Well, all the fish in the tank were laying on the bottom. And as I cast, there wasn't anything coming to my fly, and I had to explain to the audience, this is why. And then, just about ten minutes before I finished, the sun was shining through, and the perimeter evidently had gone up and held, because all of a sudden, the smaller fish, but the fish in the tank, there were half a dozen starting to swim up near the surface, so as I made a cast, I could get the fish to come to the fly, every one of them that was moving. And eventually, before the show was over, all of the fish were moving back and forth in the tank in the top two feet. And that was a perfect example of how the barometric pressure affected their feeding behavior. Interesting. We're up against our second commercial break of the evening. Our guest tonight is Denny Rickards. His website is flyfishingstillwaters.com, and we're going to be back after a word from our sponsors. Some concerts mean a little more, especially when an artist is coming home. Hi, I'm Maryann Davis, General Manager of KNCO and Star 94.1 FM. On November 11th, we're welcoming Johnny Houlihan home for a special evening at the Miner's Foundry in Nevada City. He grew up right here in western Nevada County, and we're excited to celebrate his music with a community that helped shape his story. But an evening like this takes more than a stage and a microphone. It takes people who believe in bringing our community together. That's why I want to personally thank Dignity Health, Mike Bratton State Farm Insurance, Craig Johnson Plumbing, and Stooky Jewelers for their sponsorship of this concert. Your sponsorship helps make Johnny Houlihan coming home possible, and we're grateful for your support. From all of us at KNCO and Star 94.1 FM, thank you for helping us give Johnny a hometown welcome he'll always remember. This is Dennis Pearce, host of the KNCO Fishing and Outdoor Report. Dr. Jerry Chan and his daughter Dr. Tiffany Chan have been taking care of my family's vision needs for over 35 years. Have you avoided getting contact lenses because you have astigmatism or you might need bifocals? I recommend you either see Dr. Jerry or Dr. Tiffany to determine whether contact lenses are a possibility for you. Their family optometry practice is located at the ground floor at 360 Sierra College Drive in Grass Valley. That's the third building on the left as you go from the roundabout down toward Ridge Road. They are experienced doctors, they have an experienced staff, and they are a winning team. Hey Nevada County, why pay full price when you don't have to? With the KNCO Shopping Show, get discounted gift certificates to your favorite local businesses. And now you can shop anytime at knco.com. No waiting for the radio show. Check out our daily deal right on the homepage. Plus, sign up for free emails and get our deal of the week. The KNCO Shopping Show. Shop local. Spend less. Save big. Hi, I'm Pat Dyer of Utopian Stone. There's something special about seeing a hometown kid follow his dreams and come home to share them. That's why we're proud to sponsor Johnny Houlihan Coming Home Concert. This Nevada City boy has made his mark in country music, and on November 11th, he's bringing his songs and stories to the Miner's Foundry in Nevada City. We hope you'll join us for a Nevada County hometown welcome. Get tickets at knco.com. At Utopian Stone, we put our hearts into what we create too. My son, Mark, his wife, Denise, and our master goldsmith, Chad, help you celebrate your own stories with custom jewelry, meaningful gifts, and expert repairs. As we've always said, we design what we make, and we make what we sell. Visit us at Pine and Broad Street in Historic Nevada City. Utopian Stone, proud of our family, our craftsmanship, and our hometown talent. This is Dennis Pierce. We're back with the KNCO Fishing and Outdoor Report. Our guest this evening is Denny Rickards, and his website is Fly Fishing Still Waters. Denny, you mentioned before the break that the end of the good fall bite is water temperatures in the low 40s and high 30s. Where is the beginning of the good fall bite coming out of the water that's too warm? Well, if I understand your question, let's look at it this way. In the spring, as in the fall, in the spring you've got an extended period of cold water because lakes freeze from the top down, and it takes, I would say, at least the months of May, maybe June. April is iffy. You can still catch fish then if you're going midday when your water temperatures will rise up to maybe the high 40s. I doubt they'll get into the 50s, but as you move into late May, June, you're going to be seeing temperatures in the low 50s, and you will see an increase in the bite, which means you can start earlier. As you get into July, August, you better be going out early before that sun is up because it's taken a lake all night long to cool, and now your water temperatures are warming. When you look at the evening bite, the lake is warm to a point where now it's starting to cool instead of warm, and so that's why the trout wait until just before dark to come on their bite. So the time of year, you have to factor in time of day and time of year with water temperatures, and anybody fishing a lake, I can't imagine that they wouldn't have a thermometer. All you have to do is stick it in the water at the edge to get an idea what that temperature is going to be. I don't care what the temperature is now, 10, 15 feet down, top 2 feet is where fish will go when they're feeding with hatches, or the shoreline edges, which is where the water warms first because it's shallow water and that sun is going to bounce off the bottom and warm it quicker. So time of year, and we're talking fall time of year, your temperatures now, and most of our lakes around here are in the 40s, probably mid to low 40s right now, and you can still get fish if you go midday, but you've got to remember the water temperature is going to put them where you find them and the depth that they'll be at, and a guy fishing a lake, I can't imagine, he better find out where the trout are and how deep they are. Those are the first two things he's got to know, Dennis, if he wants to catch them, because if you don't know where they're at, every cast, think about this, every cast you make that doesn't result in a strike or a fish landed, why did the fish not take your fly? We think that they're there, we're hoping they're there. When you make a cast and you don't catch a fish, it's because he wasn't there, and it could be a depth thing or a location thing. Relative to water temperature, the good fall bite, does it take the water to get below 60, below 65? What break temperature, coming from the heat of summer towards the cool of winter, when does the bite get good? Well, regardless of the elevation of the lake, optimum feeding temperature for trout is around 53, 54 degrees to about 62, that's optimum. That doesn't mean if it goes above 60 like Upper Klamath in June, July, August, it'll get up into the low 70s, and I'll still get a bite until about 9 o'clock in the morning and those fish lay down. So, optimum feeding is going to be in that range, and when you're talking fall fishing, remember, the temperatures at midday will be at their warmest point, and as they drop, once you get down into the high 40s, low 40s, you're going to find the way a fish takes your fly is totally different than when it's warmer. Trout is far more aggressive in warmer temperatures, and when you're thinking of how they're going to react, because you can tell by water temperatures, if it's cold, you better slowly retrieve, and the fly you're using, the big stuff, buggers, leeches, minnow imitations, those are flies that reflect movement, and it's up to the angler to activate the movement the way the fly is tied. Your small flies, all of the small ones, calabetas, nymphs, hares, pheasant tail, zugbugs, prince nymphs, all those flies are really puke imitations, and the trout feed on those in the top foot of water, actually the top two, three inches, so temperatures are going to be warmer in that surface area, cooler down in the summer months, in the fall, it's reversing itself. You've got your colder water on top, and the warmer water is down, so when a fish is actively feeding, he may go into those colder temperatures on top, but it depends on what that degree is, so I would say if you're fishing water temperatures from mid-50s to high 40s, even if it's fall time of the year, you're going to have those temperatures, and you should still get a bite, but I'd still focus my time more between 10 and 2 in the day, and you don't have to go early, you won't find a great bite. I've done it, and I'm going for a boat ride. Good point, good point. Do you, just as a general rule of thumb, fish the smaller flies, the pupa imitations, slower than you fish the buggers and leeches and minnow imitations, just as far as the retrieve and activity of the fly itself? Yeah, good question, Dennis. Guys should know, when they're using a bugger, leech, or minnow imitation, trout strike those things because what they see is something that may be food, and it's the movement of the parts on that fly, which goes back to the retrieve that you're using, you have to activate that movement. Trout respond to movement. Their strike for those type of flies is going to be very aggressive, very hard. That's not what's going to happen when you're using the small stuff. You're fishing it high in the water, and trout know that that insect, because that's what we're talking about, is insect imitations, it ain't going anywhere, so all the fish has to do when there's a hatch occurring, if he's on a pupa, it'll be hanging just below the top of the water, and they'll swim in there with their mouth open, just sucking these things in, so when you get a strike using those, you don't get that hard, aggressive strike that you get with the buggers. It occurs once in a while, but for the most part, the trout's going to suck it in, and anglers need to know, and I tell this to my guys when I'm guiding them, when you put that fly out there, it isn't about moving it parallel. This is a major mistake that most guys make and don't realize it. When you see a ring, you have to determine, is it the adult he's feeding on or the pupa? If you see a ring and you don't see the trout, he's sucking the adult under. If you see him porpoise, maybe the tail shows, he's taking pupa, and they are moving very slowly when they're feeding on pupa, so the key to catching those fish is not a parallel pull, because as you pull the fly across, you see a ring and you cast to it, and you start stripping back to you, the trout knows the insect that you're trying to imitate isn't moving, so if you're moving it parallel, you're going for a long day, you're not going to get hit. You'll get, once in a while, you'll pick up a fish as you pull it back, and one that comes in from the side, but for the most part, the key to catching those fish, Dennis, when the optimum temperatures are there, is not to strip it, but to pause and let the fly drop, strip and then drop. It's the drop, going up and down, is what keys the fish's response to your fly, and the takes will, for the most part, be very soft. Interesting. Now, let's switch to the bait fish imitation, buggers, leeches, that sort of thing. How do you determine speed at which you will retrieve? Is that a water temperature oriented thing, or is it just a trial and error thing on any given day? No, that's a good question. I think, for the most part, for a bugger or a leech, you have to pull them, and I use about a foot to a foot and a half strips, but I put in definite pauses in there. I have to activate the parts of the tail that's pulsating, the wings are pulsating, that's what's going to key the fish to it. If you're fishing a shoreline edge, you've got to remember, the fish are moving parallel, so if you're out casting and you're showing them profile view of your fly, that's exactly what he needs to see. Even if you don't know the fish is there, you will get hit, and the majority of your strikes are going to result in hookups. You may not hook a lot of fish, but you need to move and cover the area, not fish in one spot, but move casting in, and if you do that, you've got to remember, a trout moving parallel isn't going to turn and follow your fly out to you. There's a misnomer among fly fishermen, stream river guys, lake guys, and it still carries through today. Trout, when they see your fly, do not take it from behind. We think they do. I used to think they do. They don't. They take it from the side. A trout may follow your fly from behind, but they won't hit, and how you'll know that's true is when you hook your fish, just look and see where the hook is in his mouth. You'll find it in one corner or the other, which means it came in from the side. Stop and think how many fish you're going to hook, where the hook is in the upper or lower jaw. If you're fishing small pupa patterns, you'll have it because as soon as the fly hits, if you lead him, he'll take it right now, and that's a possibility. So the bigger flies, they need to have movement, and that comes from the retreat that we use, and even if the water is cold, I might slow it a hair, but I'll usually put longer pauses in it, and I think anybody that fish in lake knows that you get a lot of strikes as your fly is dropping, and that's a good indicator, but for the most part, I'm going to be moving it parallel and pulling it across. How big of a hook will you use for leeches, minnows, buggers in a still water when you're fishing for trout, and we're not talking 20 pound trout. We're talking 16, 18, 20 inch trout. How big of a hook will you tie in? I use the same size hook, Dennis, regardless. I've been doing it forever. I pretty much use a size 8 in leeches, buggers, minnows. Once in a while in a minnow, I might go to a 6. The reason for it is I want a wider gap, and when I start my pursuit on lakes, I'm not after 12 to 15 inch trout. They'll get in the way, and you'll catch them. I'm after the big boys, and a wider gap hook will hook and hold a big fish over 20 inches a lot better, but it's really funny when I send flies out on my orders that go out every day. Guys in California, for whatever the reason, order more 10s than they order size 8s. When I'm guiding, I usually put the guys on the 8s, but we're talking about really a minute difference. There isn't that much difference between a 10 and an 8 as far as the gap on the hook. Another one will work. It has to do with how the fish is going to take your fly. If he is aggressive, and he's pursuing it, and he wants to kill it, the strike will be very aggressive. They'll be hard, and you'll result in a lot of hookups. You'll break off some fish, but now that goes into the tippets and leaders, and that's a whole different story. We are up against our third commercial break of the evening. Our guest tonight is Denny Rickerts, and his website is flyfishingstillwaters.com. There's a wealth of information there. We've got one more commercial break. We'll be back after a word from our sponsors. Welcome back to Fly Fishing Still Waters. I'm Denny Rickerts, and this is Fly Fishing Still Waters. When you get a local state farm agent, they can help make it easy, and help you choose the coverage you need. Plus, they're available online, over the phone, or even in person. I'm so into this. Call State Farm Agent Mike Bratton in Grass Valley at 530-273-0521. Honey, remember when we first started dating? He used to do the sweetest things to impress me. Used to? Excuse me? I'm still quite the romantic. Oh, really? What have you done for me lately? Well, I've been looking into getting us a Generac automatic standby generator from Precision Electric. Ooh, talk electrical to me. How about battery storage, solar systems, and expert electrical work from licensed electricians? Keep going. They even service generators, so we're ready when the power goes out. You know, there's something very attractive about a man who plans ahead. Well, what can I say? After all these years, I've still got that spark. Yes, you do, honey. Yes, you do. For Generac generators, solar, battery, storage, and professional electrical services, trust Precision Electric. Visit PEGV.net. They've been voted Nevada County's best for years. So, dinner by candlelight tonight? Only if it's romantic, and not because the power went out. Hi, this is Jared Johnson with The Range. It's that time of year. The leaves are falling and so are the prices at The Range, Nevada County's premier indoor shooting range and retail firearms store. Don't miss our 31st annual anniversary sale on Saturday, November 14th from 9 a.m. to 4 p.m. As we celebrate our country's 250th anniversary, we will salute our military and highlight the sale of a rare, one-of-a-kind military collection featuring over 70 original U.S. carbines and many other historical firearms. Our super sale of ammunition and modern arms is second to none and will be accompanied by our fall turkey shoot and all the interactive events you've come to appreciate over the last 31 years. Don't miss out on all the fun and remember everything is on sale November 14th at The Range located 13235 Grass Valley Avenue. Bring the entire family and we'll see you there. Remember when you could work in the yard all day and actually move the next morning? Yeah, good times. These days, I recommend a hot tub from Sierra Timberline. Warm water therapy can help soothe pulled muscles, achy backs and sore joints, and frankly, sitting in a hot tub beats complaining about them. Morning or night, soak, relax, feel better, repeat. Sierra Timberline in the home center, Idaho-Maryland Road in Grass Valley. This is Dennis Parrish, we're back with KNCO Fishing and Outdoor Report. Our guest this evening is Denny Rickerts. Fly Fishing Still Waters is his website. A wealth of information there too. Some of the books he's written, the flies he's developed. Denny, if somebody in the fly fishing world is relatively new and what they've got for a fly line is your standard floating fly line for a dry fly, you've developed a number of fly lines for the Cortland Line Company. Could you explain a couple of the more popular lines and why you develop them and why you build them the way they are? What I did, Dennis, is when I went to work with Cortland, they hired me to design and develop the still water side of their business. What I found is a lot of the lines that they were selling didn't tell the buyer how to use them or what they were for. So we put that information on the outside of the box, but what they didn't have that we needed were sink tip lines. Gentini is the guy that really started the sink tip business for Salmon Steelhead. What I found, and this is after years of frustration and not doing well, is when fishing pupa patterns, the trout is high in the water and I needed a line and it wasn't going to be a floating line. You've got to remember, a floating line was never meant to be retrieved. It floats in the water, which means it leaves a shadow and reflects light. If you're in a windy situation, the line is going to bow, which puts drag on your fly, and you're going to have a long day trying to catch fish with that line. But if you're fishing a situation where you're only having to cast short distances and fish that top 3, 4, 5 inches of water, a floater can get you by, but it's not the best. What I designed that really helped was an intermediate sink tip, which was 7 feet long, and that line kept my fly in the top foot. If I wanted to go deeper, like fish were holding 8 to 10 feet down, then we use a 10 foot type 2 tip, which means the number on the sink rates, whether you're talking 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, or 6, is relative to the number of feet in 10 seconds. So a 2 sinks 2 feet in 10, a 4 is 4 feet in 10, and you can count down and know what direction your fly is moving. One of the things that most guys do not understand, I give this information when I'm giving talks to fly clubs and things, is that a full sinking line, when it gets down, every time you pause and retrieve, the line will continue to sink, which will put you into moss, weeds, structure, whatever. If you're fishing 10 feet of water and the fish are holding at 9, you're going to get into that. But a sink tip line does not do that. Sink tip lines, as you strip, if you make a 50 foot cast, 40 feet is floating, when you strip back to you, you think the fly is coming up. It does not come up. It drags. It hangs at that angle and moves parallel. So a sink tip line is far better to fish in the depths than a full sinking line. If you try it and you're hanging that moss or weeds, how long are you going to stay with it before you start changing? I guarantee you it's going to be pretty quick. So there's other lines that you can use for still water, but really a floater for dry is an indicator fish and an intermediate line, which is the fish at the top 6 feet, sinks 1 foot in 10, and that 7 foot intermediate sink tip are the three lines that I employ when I'm on the water 99% of the time. Okay, gotcha. And are you still associated with the Cortland Line Company? No. They changed hands and I still buy some products from them, but I don't like the direction that that company took. Okay. And they changed some of the ingredients on their intermediate lines. There's a lot of twist to them today. So I'm seeking other avenues with other companies that I can still get the 7 foot tip. They stopped making it as a matter of fact. I'm down to very, very few left now, but I'm working with another company and we'll come up with another line, just a different name, but it will do the same thing. And I just might add, let me put this little plug in for the guys out there that may want to come up and fish in Oregon. If you guys are wondering what lakes, what time, what flies, what direction to go, have them give me a call. I'll take it over the phone. I get calls every day, 365 days a year, from guys wanting information. I'll be glad to help you. You won't be imposing. And what I do is try to help the guys be successful. So there will be some lakes better than others, and they're going to change. I don't know what kind of winter we're going to have, but we'll know in the spring. So if they're in doubt, they can always call me and I'll try to help them. So instead of giving out phone numbers, I like to give out words for access to the Internet. Is your phone number on your website? Yes. And your website is flyfishingstillwaters.com? Stillwaters.com. Okay. But on there, you've got great photographs of all your different fly patterns. You sell the material. I noticed you sell JFair fly tying materials as well as a number of other fly tying materials that are specifically designed for tying your own Stillwater fly patterns. That's correct. The saddle is a big one. Okay. And whose saddles are you selling these days? Umpqua. Umpqua. Okay. And is that still a Metz saddle? Yes. The Metz saddles are still the best on the market. But the companies, what they've done is they've bought up all the chickens that they can raise and they give them a really high price for them, but they get 100% of them. And if there's a large number of chickens that year, there's usually a few left over. Those are the ones that we get, but I might get a half a dozen. I might get a dozen, but they're the best on the market. And the guys that are dyeing them are using JFair materials that they use to dye them. So it's still in effect. All right. Because the JFair legacy lives on. Yes, it does. Yes, it does. Denny Rickards, I really appreciate your taking the time to be with us this evening. We are now archiving my shows, and I wanted to have you on talking about fall fishing. Anybody that wants to listen to this program a week from now, two weeks from now, you can go to knco.com and there's On Demand. And from there, follow the keywords and that sort of thing. But it'll get you to this show, and it'll be there hopefully for years into the future. Denny Rickards, thank you for being with us this evening. And thank you for generously offering your phone number for people that want to come up and fish Central Oregon up there. That's very, very generous of you. Thank you for having me, Dennis. Denny Rickards, Fly Fishing Stillwaters. We'll be back next week with another program of the KNCO Fishing and Outdoor Report. Thanks for listening. All the time, baby going fishing too. Bet your life, your sweet wife's gonna catch more fish than you. Many fish bites if you got good bait. Oh, here's a little tip that I would like to relay. Many fish bites if you got good bait. Mama's going fishing, mama's going fishing, baby's going fishing too. Now with two ways to hear Nevada County's number one source for local news. Hey, Jim, how are ya? News talk at 8.30 a.m. KNCO, Grass Valley, Nevada. Jim, I'm... you We're just six minutes away from the Car Show on KNCO, Grass Valley, Nevada City. 106.9 FM and 8.30 a.m. It's six... --- end of transcript ---