Show: On The Town Station: KNCO File: 8:21.mp3 Air date: 2026-08-21 Source: OpenAI whisper-1 · shrunk from 30.9 MB to 6.2 MB --- transcript --- Hello folks and good morning. It's a great day here in Nevada County. This is Diane Helms with Getting Real About Real Estate and today it's my fortune to have as my guest Nick McBurney from the Nevada County Building Department. He's going to talk about accessory dwelling units and tiny homes on wheels. You know many people have been asking me questions about these ordinances and I have just the right person here to answer them. So welcome Nick. Thank you so much for joining us today. Nick McBurney Thanks very much for having me. Diane Helms Yeah, you're very welcome. So please tell the audience something about you like your position at the county and exactly what role you play in the permitting process. Nick McBurney Of course. I've been at Nevada County for 11 years. I work in the building department as a supervising plans examiner. So I'm responsible for managing the office staff and reviewing all the construction documents to make sure that they meet minimum code standards. Diane Helms Well, that's quite a bit. Boy, that sounds like it's pretty demanding to me. Nick McBurney It is a challenging job. A lot is riding on a clean set of plans that doesn't have any errors or omissions. And in the 11 years that I've been doing this, I've learned a lot. Diane Helms So you review those plans to see if there's any omissions or things that are missing, right? Nick McBurney Yeah, that's correct. Diane Helms Yeah. So then what? They go back? Nick McBurney Well, oftentimes I'll have a list of comments that people need to respond to, you know, add a smoke detector here or put in an egress window or whatever it is. And people will then update their plans to meet that. Diane Helms So do you physically go out there or do you just looking at it in the office? Nick McBurney I just look at it. I look at the construction plans. I do periodically do inspections once the permit's been issued. Diane Helms Okay. Nick McBurney You know, if they need someone for backup. Diane Helms Okay. Well, great. Well, that's like I said, that's pretty demanding. I hope you have some people to go along and help you with this. Nick McBurney Yes, we have a great team of people in the building department. Diane Helms I know you do. And I'm just going to say one thing we hadn't talked about. But you know, Nevada County Association of Realtors and the Nevada County Building Department Planning Department, we all, you know, had that great show about a week or two ago at Nevada County Root Center. You know, the Nevada County Association partnered with Nevada County Building Department. And it was like 35 vendors and we had panels talking about the permitting process and that sort of thing. It was well attended, I thought. Nick McBurney Yes, absolutely. There is a constant effort to reach out to the public and educate them about the process and how we can assist them during that process. Diane Helms Yeah, and it was free and people brought their kids and they had face painting and they had food trucks. And I think we're going to try to continue with this as an annual event. Nick McBurney That's certainly possible. Absolutely. Diane Helms We had talked about that. So, you know, if you didn't attend that, folks, you know, today is going to be a little bit of the process of things that were discussed at that at that home build and garden show as I'm going to go into some of the things that we discussed. One of which was, you know, what is the purpose of the tiny homes on wheels? That's a question that people were asking. Nick McBurney Sure, absolutely. So the ordinance is part of a broader effort to provide creative, flexible and cost effective housing solutions for Nevada County residents. And there are several initiatives that the county has going right now. One is an ADU guidebook. We have some pre-approved housing master plans. And then we have a program where we reduce some regulations for rural owner built homes. Diane Helms Okay, interesting. Yeah. So, so what would can you tell us what actually qualifies, you know, a tiny home on wheels? Nick McBurney Sure. So they are up to 400 square feet in area. They are on a chassis on wheels so they can be towed. They are built with materials that are commonly used for the construction of, you know, a residence. The the materials that you would associate with a recreational vehicle would not be allowed in this case. So it really is a tiny house on a chassis. Diane Helms Okay, but they just happen to have wheels, right? Nick McBurney Yeah, it just happens to have wheels and of a certain size. It's kind of a hybrid if you think about it between a house and an RV. Diane Helms Right. And I'm assuming that you can purchase those somewhere, right? Nick McBurney Yes. There is a market for tiny homes on wheels probably throughout the country, I would say. Diane Helms Right. And then Nevada County has their own standards, I imagine. Nick McBurney There are people who are working to manufacture tiny homes in our jurisdiction. Diane Helms Yeah, exactly. That's what I understand. So where are actually they allowed? I mean besides, you know, obviously they need to be on a residence, right? Already? Nick McBurney Right. So they can be used as a primary dwelling, an accessory dwelling unit or units within a dwelling group consistent with the allowable zoning. And then really it's simple. Any zoning that would allow for housing, a tiny home could be placed on a property of that type. Diane Helms Really? So if I have a piece of land and I don't have anything on it except maybe a well and a septic and I just don't have a place to live, can I put a tiny home and just live in that as my primary? Nick McBurney You can. Diane Helms Really? So there's no restriction against size that has to be a certain size? Nick McBurney No, there isn't. That 400 square foot tiny home can be your primary dwelling assuming you've met all of the other standards for development. Diane Helms Awesome. Well, that's interesting. Nick McBurney Just like the regular house. Diane Helms Yeah. Well, I imagine that a lot of people who have land have been considering doing that. Nick McBurney It seems like a great option. It does provide a lot of flexibility and is cost effective. And for a person who wants to live in that, sort of live that lifestyle of having something very compact, I think it's a great solution. Diane Helms So the question that I've been asking is, you know, so somebody says that they want to get a permit and they want a tiny home on wheels, but that's different from RVs, right? And so how and why are they different from RVs? I mean, what is the requirements for that? Nick McBurney Sure. So in general, an RV is designed for temporary occupancy, whereas a tiny home on wheels is designed to be built and lived in full time. And they are built to a higher safety standard and habitability standard. Diane Helms Okay. Yeah. So there's a big difference then. Nick McBurney There is. And it comes down, a lot of it comes down to the construction materials and the approach to building. Diane Helms Right. Like having hardy plank siding, right? Nick McBurney Exactly. That's true. Yeah, hardy plank siding and all the other kind of home hardening requirements that you would have in a house where you have fiber cement siding, you have your windows have a single pane of tempered glass, your vents are rated so that embers can't enter your house and, you know, catch it on fire. All of those things are requirements for a tiny home. Diane Helms Okay. So any guests are allowed in all zones where traditional housing is permitted probably, right? Nick McBurney That is correct. Diane Helms Yeah. So that's interesting. So why are tiny homes on wheels, why are they so different other than, you know, you elaborated a little bit on that. But the difference mainly that I'm seeing, and you just correct me, is they have to be permitted as a dwelling, a permanent dwelling that's got safety requirements, right? Nick McBurney Yes. Diane Helms Exterior, interior. Nick McBurney That's absolutely right. Yeah, it is built to a standard that is different than an RV standard. It is more demanding. It does produce a building that will resist a wildfire and that is safe to occupy. You know, there's the ability to exit easily. And all of the construction materials and code standards are very similar to a conventional home. Diane Helms Okay, yeah. So I imagine that the cost for permitting those is quite, way less expensive, right, than an ADU. Would you not think that for like the cost per square foot, the permitting? Nick McBurney I would say, depending on the size of the ADU, sure. The development standards, everything that surrounds that accessory dwelling unit or tiny home, your septic, your well, your electrical, your driveway, you know, all those things are really the same. As far as the unit, the cost of the unit itself, though, it could be substantially less than a stick-built accessory dwelling unit. Diane Helms Exactly, that's what I was thinking, yeah. Nick McBurney Yes. Diane Helms So how many tiny homes can I have on the property, on my property? See, I have like almost four acres, but approximately. Nick McBurney So if you were, if you had bare land, you could set two tiny homes on your property. One is your primary residence and one is a detached accessory dwelling unit. Diane Helms Okay, and you could, you could also have, well, this is a little different than tiny homes, and we'll get into that, but you could have a junior ADU and an ADU, right, maybe? Nick McBurney That is correct. Diane Helms And a house, and a primary? Nick McBurney So a junior ADU, we'll digress for a second and just say a junior ADU is an area usually within, it's within the existing footprint of a house, like a master bedroom. Diane Helms Okay. Nick McBurney And it has its own exit, this junior ADU, so a patio door, something of that nature. You install a kitchen, either an efficiency kitchen or a full kitchen in the room, and then you can share a bathroom with the primary residence or, you know, use a master bath. Diane Helms Okay. Nick McBurney So that's your JADU within a house. Diane Helms Within a house, right. Nick McBurney Within a house, exactly. So you have your main house, your JADU, and then your ADU, which is either attached or detached. Diane Helms Is there a restriction on a junior ADU like that, as far as like square footage? Nick McBurney Yes. Diane Helms And what would that be? Nick McBurney The maximum square footage for a JADU is 500 square feet. Diane Helms 500, okay. Nick McBurney Yes. Diane Helms Oh, that's interesting. So we're going to talk a little bit more about that, folks, in just a few minutes, but one more second, I want to ask you a couple more questions here about what certifications are required for a tiny home. Nick McBurney Right. So the tiny home must comply with the California Health and Safety Code. It's a little technical, 18027.3. Basically, it has a label. A simple way to think of it, it's certified by a third-party inspection company. So during the construction process, there is oversight provided and a certification and a label applied to the unit. Diane Helms Oh, I see. Okay. Nick McBurney So you can have some confidence that it was built properly. Diane Helms Oh, okay. And I'm understanding that you can rent out a tiny home. Is that correct? Nick McBurney You can rent out a tiny home for long-term use, which is more than 30 days. Diane Helms Oh, okay. All right. Interesting. Well, this is good news, because I know we really need housing in Nevada County. The cost of housing and housing to build has really skyrocketed. And I know that the county has to take their direction from the state, right, and the state tells the county what they can do and can't do. So there's a lot of restrictions placed in Nevada County and other counties, I think, that come down from the state. Correct? Nick McBurney That is correct. Diane Helms Yeah. So just one other question on the tiny homes on wheels. Are there any requirements for design standards? I mean, I think you have some design standards, like the size of the pitch of the roof. Does it have to be a certain height? Does it have to have dual-pane windows, that sort of thing? Nick McBurney Sure. So a tiny home on wheels must be designed to resemble a conventional residential structure. So typical siding, a pitched roof. There's no specifics for the pitch, but that it have a pitched roof. Windows with exterior trim, and then insulation and certain exiting requirements. So all of those things go into making a tiny home on wheels. Diane Helms Okay. Well, this is good information. It looks like we're going to have to take a quick commercial break, folks. So hang in there. We'll be right back. And next we're going to talk more about accessory dwelling units. Discover the stories that shaped Nevada County on History Unfolded, hosted by Tom Fitzsimmons and myself, Mike Stewart, with special guests, the second and fourth Mondays at 9 a.m., brought to you by Mowl Paint and Glass, serving Nevada County since 1949, and Smarter Broadband, local, reliable, high-speed internet. Don't miss the voices, the stories, and the history that make our community unique, right here on KNCO News Talk 830. Diane Helms Well, hello again, folks. Diane Helms again with Getting Real About Real Estate with Nick McBurney from Nevada County Building Department, who is here talking about tiny homes on wheels and accessory dwelling units in general in Nevada County. So, Nick, we talked quite a bit about, thank you for all that information about tiny homes. I kind of changed directions a little bit right now and talk a little bit more about accessory dwelling units in general. And I know that they're also known as what, as guest units. What are they also known as? Nick McBurney Sure, a second unit, or an in-law unit, or a granny unit is a common phrase that's used to describe accessory dwelling units. Diane Helms Okay. And so they can be built anywhere, or on, how are they, on a detached, attached, or what? Nick McBurney Sure, so they can be built as a ground-up detached structure. You can take an existing structure, like a garage, and convert it into an accessory dwelling unit. You can build an addition to your primary residence and make that an attached accessory dwelling unit. Or you can convert space in your primary dwelling, for instance, like a daylight basement. Diane Helms Right, yes, interesting, yeah. So if somebody had, for example, an area in their home, we don't really have basements here, but like a basement, and it's finished off, and they're thinking, hey, you know, I want to make this into an ADU. So that would be a minimum square footage, because it's attached to the house, would that be that accessory dwelling unit junior? Nick McBurney So the junior accessory dwelling unit, which we talked about earlier, is a maximum of 500 square feet. Diane Helms Right. Nick McBurney And it's always part of the existing footprint of the building. Diane Helms Right, so I'm just saying if it's part of underneath the house. Nick McBurney Yeah, so that's an attached accessory dwelling unit. Diane Helms Okay. Nick McBurney Which is limited to 50% of the house's square footage, in terms of its maximum size, up to 1,200 square feet. Diane Helms Well, that's quite a bit. Nick McBurney Yeah, so you have a 2,000 square foot house, you can have a 1,000 square foot accessory dwelling unit attached to your house. Diane Helms Okay. Nick McBurney Yeah. Diane Helms Okay, so with that in mind, then, what is the difference then, a junior accessory dwelling unit, which only can be 500, so why don't you explain that a little bit? Nick McBurney Sure, attached accessory dwelling unit is up to, right, so an attached junior accessory dwelling unit is a maximum of 500 square feet. It's part of the existing conditioned area of the house. Actually let me amend that. It could be an attached garage converted to a junior ADU. I think the main difference is that they're smaller. A junior ADU is only 500 square feet, whereas an ADU can be as much as 1,200 square feet. Diane Helms Okay, so it's basically the size that determines it, right? Nick McBurney I would say so, yes. Diane Helms So, let's say the area that I'm talking that I want to make into a junior ADU has to be 500. If I wanted it bigger, then it would just be a regular ADU, accessory dwelling unit, right? Nick McBurney Yes, that's correct. And there are a couple of other little details. One is that the junior ADU can share a bathroom with primary residents, whereas an ADU cannot. And then the second thing is that there are two requirements. One, for an ADU, you need a fire separation between the ADU and the main house. So there's some layers of drywall separating the two units. So if a fire starts in one area, it doesn't move into the primary house. Diane Helms I see. Exactly. Yeah, that would be important. Nick McBurney Right. The other thing is just that you'd be able to shut off the utilities to your ADU separate from the house. So you should be able to independently shut off gas and water and electricity. For a JADU, none of those things apply. It's really like you're just part of the house. Diane Helms Basically, right, you're just part of the house, right? Nick McBurney Yeah, you took a bedroom and you added a kitchen to it. It's super simple. Diane Helms So it's the kitchen that makes the difference, correct? Nick McBurney It is the kitchen that makes it as a unit, a separate unit. Diane Helms And the kitchen would mean like a range and oven? Nick McBurney It could be a full kitchen. It could be as little as an efficiency kitchen. So it's just a hot plate, no stove. Diane Helms Okay, all right. So where are ADUs allowed? Nick McBurney Right. So generally speaking, an ADU is permitted on properties that are zoned to allow residential use. So it's a very broad net that was thrown there and anywhere you can build a house, you can build an ADU. Diane Helms And so I guess, can anybody apply for an ADU? And if so, how many? Nick McBurney So the applicant for the ADU is either the current owner of the property or a general contractor is always allowed to pull permits. So either of those two or the owner could designate someone as their agent in writing and then that person can pull permits for them. Diane Helms Yeah, and it depends on the zoning, correct? Nick McBurney It does depend on the zoning of the property, whether you can or cannot develop an ADU. Diane Helms Like parcel zone, typically are the parcels that are zoned for R1, R2, and what else? RA maybe? Nick McBurney Yes, parcels zoned R1, R2, residential ag, which is RA, AE, AG, FR, and TPZ are generally eligible for an ADU. Diane Helms Oh, okay. Well, I don't see anything commercial here, so that probably is not going to be the case, right? Nick McBurney Right, exactly. Diane Helms So anybody can apply is my understanding, right? So you have either the current owner or the contractor, or the owner, right? Nick McBurney Agreed, yes. Diane Helms And can a current owner be its own contractor and do the building? Nick McBurney You can be an owner-builder and you can apply for the permit and act as the contractor. Diane Helms Yeah, just like you would if you were building a house and sub things out probably. Nick McBurney Yes, that's right. You would probably be working with licensed subcontractors. Diane Helms Oh, okay. So here's a question that somebody asked me recently. They have a detached garage that they use and they've been renting that detached garage out and it's not an ADU and it's not permitted as that, but they've been doing it. It looks nice. The finished work looks good. What would be required for somebody that had something like that and they want to make it legal? Nick McBurney Okay. So let's say we have a detached garage that was permitted when it was built. It's a permitted structure. It was converted without the benefit of permits to an accessory dwelling unit. In that situation, first of all, anytime it's work done without permits, the plans and construction materials that you would submit are just identical to what you would submit if you were proposing to do it today. So just think in those terms. One of the big issues is that when you convert from a garage to a residential use to an accessory dwelling unit, you have to meet the wildland urban interface requirements, which is the exterior siding. So it's possible that you would need to reside that building to meet that standard and to change out the windows so they had a single pane of tempered glass and the vents so that when you're venting the attic or the crawl space, the vents are rated to preclude that entrance of flame and burning embers. So that's a big one. And then we get letters from third parties. So like a third party, a plumber, electrician, mechanical contractor, we might ask for a third party to go in and inspect the building and do a report for us. Well, that's probably very good to do that, yeah, because electrical could not be right. Right. We have no way of... Once the permit is issued and the inspector goes out, there will be some exposing of inside the walls to look at things like anchor bolts or electrical, but it's just sort of spot checking. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Well, thank you. That helps them because I know that there's some concern that she's afraid to go to the county and I said, you know, fear isn't going to help you get it fixed. Right. If you come and talk to us, you're not implicating yourself in any way. That's what I like about that. Yeah. You can come and speak openly about projects and the only time a code case is initiated is if there's a complaint associated with a parcel, yes. Okay. So here's a question. For example, say somebody already has an ADU and they want to modify it, either increase the square footage or decrease it. And let's just say it's got a restrictive covenant, you know, way back when people had granny units, they had these in their deed restriction when they got the permit for the granny unit, said that they could not rent it to anybody unless they were 65 or 60 or older. Had to be a granny. That's why they called them granny units. Right. Right. So what happens with that now? I mean, is that still in effect if it's been permitted for the county years ago as a granny unit and it's been being used and rented? I'm just wondering because I know that the county, I'm told that you can sometimes rescind a recorded restrictive covenant if you contact the planning department about that. I don't know if you've ever been asked that question yet or not. No, I apologize. I haven't. I would just direct you to the planning department to get further information. Yeah, that sounds like a planning question for sure because there are a number of homes in Nevada County that got granny unit permitted. Right. Right. And now because the accessory dwelling unit is in effect and it's permitted at that time, I just didn't know what kind of process would be involved with that. The rescinding of that requirement. Well, it's to say it is rescinded. What would be the process? Would there be any other processes involved that you're aware of? Yeah. Yeah, I apologize. It's just not something I, an area that I work in. Yeah, that's okay. So what about development standards here for ADUs? Let's talk a little bit about that. You're really good at, I'm sure a lot of these questions here you can certainly answer without even me asking you. So as far as development standards, I think the first thing is to just talk about utilities. You are required to have a connection to water and sewer. You are not required to have a separate electrical service. You can feed your ADU from your house and from your house's electrical service panel and then just feed that second unit. There is a deed restriction required, which restricts the rental, which establishes the rental standards that you can only rent it for long-term use. And then the next thing I would say, there's a couple of small things. There is a new address signed to the ADU. If it's a new detached accessory dwelling unit, then you are required to place solar on that unit. Okay. And if it's older and you're modifying it, would you have to put solar on it? No. No? Okay. Yeah, only a ground-up build would require solar. And then there are separate utility disconnection requirements. So you can't have the water, you know, your water can't come into your house and then exit the back of the house and go to the ADU. It has to tee off so that I could shut off the house or I could shut off the ADU independent of each other. Okay. And then the last one I would just say is that, and mentioned previously, is that there are requirements for, you know, fire separations when they're attached. Yes. So that's a, that can be challenging if you're putting in, say you have a daylight basement and you're putting in an accessory dwelling unit, you need a double layer 5-8s type X drywall on the ceiling so that you can, that will keep the fire, you know, downstairs. I understand. That would be important. Yes. Yes. Yeah. And then lastly, I would say that the ADU cannot share heating and air conditioning systems with the main residence. This came up during COVID, of course, which is that you can't have a single return air duct, you know, because you basically would be sharing air between the two units. Oh, I, oh, because of the COVID. I understand. Well, yeah, it was emphasized during that time as being the importance of it, but it's still true today. It's still true. Okay. Yeah. Interesting. Wow. Yeah. This has been great information, Nick. I really appreciate you taking the time to come in, talk to me, and, you know, I love being able to share information to all my friends, clients, past clients, whoever wants to listen because, you know, we always have these questions and sometimes we don't have the time or the opportunity to talk to the people, and so I appreciate you coming. Great. Thanks so much for having me, Diane. Thank you. My name is Diane Helms with Getting Real About Real Estate. I am a local realtor here at Century 21 Cornerstone in Nevada City, and I am a mediator also, so I do a lot of mediations for folks, whether it's family or real estate related, so you can also contact me about that, and my number is 530-913-8598, or you can look me up on my website. And Nick, how do we talk to you personally if we have some questions? Sure, of course. Our office number is 530-265-1222, and just ask for Nick McBurney and I'll hop on the phone and we can talk about these important issues and hopefully get you through a successful construction project. Okay, thank you. Have a great day. Bye. Bye. --- end of transcript ---