Show: Insight Station: KNCO File: 9:14.mp3 Air date: 2026-09-14 Source: OpenAI whisper-1 · shrunk from 98.6 MB to 12.3 MB --- transcript --- Welcome to KNCO Insight, Nevada County Action, KNCO's local issue talk show. This is your chance to gain insight into issues affecting Nevada County. Be a part of the show. Call with your questions or comments. The number, 477-5626, that's 477-KNCO. The opinions expressed are those of the hosts and callers and do not reflect the opinions of the advertisers, staff, or ownership of Nevada County Broadcasters. Now here is your host, Tom Fitzsimmons. And KNCO Newstime, just about 907, 63 degrees. I am the host, no, I'm the co-host of History Unfolded today, KNCO Insight, because Mike Stewart's in the house as well. Mikey, how you doing? Good, Tom, yourself? I'm doing fine. Doing fine. Good seeing you out there. Was it windy up in the town of Washington this past weekend? I was worried about it up there. Yeah, it's been pretty breezy in the canyon. Usually I feel a fall in the air. This morning I got up and it was 41 degrees and the humidity was 78 percent. Wow, that's a nice little combination there. 78 percent humidity. Yeah, I actually had to pull on an extra blanket last night. How about that? So there wasn't really a fire concern up there because of the humidity? Well, that's just the overnight, what we call the nighttime recovery. So during the day it's drying right back out again. Yeah, gotcha. It's just that damp air settles down in that canyon during the night. Last time I saw you, you were fire chief up there and over at North San Juan. Have you added any other municipalities, Mike? No. The Sacramento City asked, but I turned them down. See, this is what I'm saying. Sac City. Anything going on in the high country? Truckee? You're about halfway up there, the Truckee. I figured they'd get you by now. No, no, no. They've got a good chief up there. Kevin's doing a great job. Kevin? Okay. All right. We're real excited. Cindy Anderson's here in the house. So that's always great to see you, Cindy. How are you doing? You too, Tom. Good, good. Here's the thing about Cindy. She is so darn tough and strong. She had a knee replacement just two weeks ago? Correct. And you're saying you're not moving well. You're moving very well. Actually, not a knee replacement, just a meniscus tear. Meniscus tear. Repair. Yeah. But still, my whole right leg turned black. Now, what did you do to make that happen? Was there any sexy story about it or something? You were water skiing or anything like that? What were you doing? I wish. I have no idea. I have no idea when that happened. Saturday morning, I just could not get out of bed, which kind of blew my mind, but got it taken care of pretty quickly. Do you think it was from the old logging days and stuff? I have no idea. Who knows? Here, about 15 years ago, I was pulling hay out of the back of my truck, and one of the strings broke. And I turned around real quick and landed on both my knees rather than my head. So that could have been a determining factor. That could have set up something. This guy should talk, though. Right. Mike, of course, you've had shoulder surgery a few times. Are you done with the surgery, as far as we know now? Everything good? Fingers crossed. All right. Everything's good. So far. Like I said, I saw the doctor a month or so ago, and he said he was happy. And I said, but doctor, why does it still hurt? And he says, well, it's going to hurt for six months. But easy. See, just the way you kind of wind that a little bit there. That means you're not like Cindy. Cindy, you're not whining at all. I'm not that tough. I'm just a firefighter. I know. She's tough as nails. I whine about my knee all the time. Goodness. All right. So it's great seeing you here. Before we get into timber and lumber and all that stuff, because we're going to have an interesting talk today. Because Mike brought in, first off, a really nice thing we'll describe to you on the radio. A little sample of a hundred-year-old tree. And it's a massive tree. You can imagine how big it is. It's a hundred-year-old tree. And it's a massive tree. And it's a massive tree. And it's a massive tree. And it's a massive tree. You can imagine how big it is. It's a massive tree. And it's a massive tree. And it's a massive tree. And it's a massive tree. And it's a massive tree. And as a matter of fact, it's a hundred years old. It must be a massive tree. It must be a massive tree. You would think. You would think. But maybe not. How's Comstock Press doing? Very well. Because, you know, one thing I wanted to catch up with you, you know, you took that over for David years ago. And how's it going? It's going good. And I've added more books to the library that I carry. The Union carried, I think it was, Memoirs from the Teaching of the Union, because we That sounds right. Yes. And then Bob Wykoff had also done one of the book in that series. So I've added those to my library, so they're ready for purchase. I also have the Colfax Connection and the Toll Brothers books, which are through the Railroad Museum in Colfax. So I'm trying to bring in some of these older books that are out of production and get okay so that people can purchase those again, because I think they're very interesting. I'm sure they're very interesting. But how do you find the old books? I mean, do you have to go to libraries or historical places? Well, just from memory, when I was a kid, some of these books. And just kind of doing research, I got some of them from Comstock when he passed away and I purchased the company. He had just an array of books. So just trying to find out and get the copyrights to go ahead and reprint those from the families in that. So it's just a long process. All right. I will say this. For people, if you're not familiar with Comstock Press, we're starting to get towards fall and then the holidays and stuff. They make great gifts. Oh, absolutely. Some of their absolutely great gift books. And they're not really expensive. I mean, I try to keep them to where people can enjoy them and have them. My thing is not to make a big, big profit, but to put these books out to the public. Okay. But it's okay to make a little profit. A little profit. You have to make lots of time. It doesn't drive you crazy, I think. But that's part of your community service as far as I'm concerned. All right. Well, here's the thing about these two then in the same room. She doesn't want to make a profit. She doesn't want to make a profit. Mike, one of the highest paid firefighters I know in the state of California. How much are you making in the town of Washington? A dollar a month before taxes. And they do take taxes out. No matter what. That is one of the funniest stories I've ever heard. I guess it makes it worthwhile then. It does. I mean, I just love those type of stories. That's part of our community. Well, let's back up here a little bit. A few minutes ago, I learned an interesting tidbit about Cindy and her history. And her love of history and printing actually goes back a ways. Cindy, you want to describe that document you handed me a minute ago? Well, going through stuff at my house, I found from, I believe, when I was a sophomore in high school with Mr. McClain, he gave us a history project to do to go through Nevada County, take pictures, and write information on some of the historic places. Okay. So I found that paperwork, and I think there's, what, 26 different sites. You came up with 26 different sites? Yeah. Wow. You must have got a good grade on this thing. I got 84 out of 100. Mr. McClain, is he still around? I don't know if he is or not. I'm going to smack him. He should get 100 out of 100. That's a lot of places. So, you know, Trinity Episcopal, the Rector House, the Union, Lola Montez House. I mean, we had to go around and take photographs. It looks like that's the thing. You took snapshots of them back then, right? Snapshots? Yep. Then write a paragraph on a little bit of the history of each one of those places. Yeah, like the Lola Montez House became like the Chamber of Commerce, I think, didn't it? For a while, yeah. For a while. Were people forthcoming about talking about the place and stuff? No, that was all stuff that we had to research to put into this report. So, we had to go look at the history of these places and come up with a brief history to write underneath our photograph we took. You do realize there's a whole generation now of kids that have no idea what you just said. Yeah. Like to actually travel and not just do it on the Internet. Yeah. You know? So, we had to go to those places to take the photograph. Here we are how many years later. I found that document and it's in pretty good shape. Look at you. Might have to scan that into the Historical Society. Right. Yeah, you know what? It is worthwhile to do, right? Yeah. I think it was a pretty good project. I think any time you can keep that stuff, Mike, that is important stuff. So, you had kind of the bug even way back then. I believe so. Yeah. Yeah. You know? Because I was the kid that my family, whenever we went anywhere, I'd go, well, how come that isn't? Where is that? And why is that like that? And they would go, would you just shut up, Cindy? Well, you don't play in the forest. Yeah. You don't play in the woods. So. Yeah. Now, when you were a little kid like that, did you have any interest in becoming, say, a historian or something like that? No, not really. But I just remember when all the other kids were out playing, and my grandmother's brother, at the time, you have to figure, he was probably in his late 80s. Everybody else was playing, and where was I? Asking him what he did, where he worked. He worked at a serum plant in Kansas City that made the serum for the vaccines for, like, rabies and hog cholera. Wow. And that's a whole process. Wow. Yeah. And he did that. I mean, it was pretty interesting. It sounds like you would be great on radio. Because I just thought about the way you just said that. That's what I do. When I meet people, it would drive my daughters nuts because they bring, you know, a young man home and stuff. And I'd interview them. Yeah. Interrogate them. I'd just interview. I'm going to find out everything, you know. Was it an interview or an interrogation? Yeah. Okay. Depends on how bright they were. Yeah. But, yeah, that's pretty remarkable stuff. Yeah. Yeah. That must have been a fun place to live back then. Oh, yeah. I mean, when we moved up here, yeah. I mean, timber was a big thing when we moved up here. And really immediately pretty much got involved in sitting at the plaza in Nevada City when we came home from swimming at Nevada City Pool. And watching the logging truck go by. You know, put your hand in the air and ask them to blow their horns and, you know. And they did, right? They did. And the water, because they used water on their brakes at that time, there was water always on the roads, you know. Oh, yeah. And the smell of the water on the hot pavement. And, you know, it was pretty interesting, you know, growing up. No doubt. Out of all those historical sites, was there one that you were surprised about? Mm-hmm. Anything that stands out? No, not really. I mean, they all had facts that, you know, I hadn't heard as just general conversation about a place. So, it just kind of was mind-blowing to find out how deep history goes with these places. Yeah. Well, I'm glad you've got Comstock Press. Thank you. And you have a love of keeping it going. And, you know, that is quite a legacy for our area. Oh, yeah. And there's been great titles through there. So, it's nice that you're keeping that thing going. We're going to take our first break. When we come back, we're talking about this huge slab of wood that Mike brought in. 110-year-old tree. And this is up on your property? Yes, it is. You know how prolific the size of the trees up there in the town of Washington. All right. So, we're going to take a quick break. We'll talk about that when we come back. No magic is stronger than sisterhood. Cast by fate, tested by time, and never broken. What is wrong with you? Are you like six? Are you sick? Yeah. You need to get out there, Sal. Have a little fun. When was the last time you were touched? I have my family. And I'm married. When was the last time you were touched? I have my family. And I'm not receiving texts with photos that I did not ask for. Oh, let me tell you about Chad. Oh, we know plenty about Chad. Come on. Prime Cinema presents movies on the big screen as they were meant to be seen at Del Oro and Sutton Cinemas. Showing through September 17th at your Prime Cinemas at the Del Oro Practical Magic 2 rated PG-13. Now let's check on the Sutton by any means rated R and Runner rated PG-13. Playing through September 17th at your local theaters. Now you know what's showing. Be sure to enjoy a movie on the big screen at Nevada County's two Prime Cinema theaters, the Sutton and the Del Oro. Hey, Nevada County. I'm Lucas Miharis. And I'm Jesse Etlin. We're the founders of Zion Capital right here in your backyard. And if you've listened to Dave Ramsey, you know how important it is to have someone you can trust. That's why we're your local SmartVestor pros. Lucas was named one of eight finalists for Advisor of the Year by Investment News and has been featured in Forbes and the Wall Street Journal. And Jesse's been voted Best Financial Advisor in Nevada County four years in a row. We're backed by firms like Fidelity and Charles Schwab. So you don't have to drive down the hill. You can have Schwab and Fidelity right here in your backyard. That means you get a true hometown relationship with Fortune 500 muscle behind your plan. We work with everyone from entrepreneurs building wealth to retirees focused on maximizing income. And we go beyond the basics, showing you smarter ways to grow your money that most people never knew existed. At the end of the day, we meet you where you're at and help you get where you want to go. Come visit us here in Grass Valley or give us a call today at 530-955-5402. Zion Capital, a mission bigger than money. Securities offered through LPL Financial, member FINRA SIPC, a registered investment advisor, and separate entity from LPL Financial. Life's most meaningful moments aren't just seen, they're heard. The laughter of family, the voices of friends, the simple joy of feeling connected to the world around you. But when hearing begins to fade, it's not just sound you miss, it's connection. I'm Dr. Kimberly Bonney, audiologist and owner of Gold Country Hearing and Balance. And I'm Dr. Courtney Matheson. We believe better hearing is about more than just sound. It's about staying engaged, being confident, and connected in your everyday life. That's why we take a personalized approach, helping you understand your hearing and supporting your overall hearing wellness. From comprehensive evaluations to solutions tailored to your lifestyle, we're here to help you reconnect with what matters most. Because when you hear better, you live better. Don't miss another moment. Visit goldcountryhearing.com slash radio to learn more and view a special offer for listeners. Gold Country Hearing and Balance. Helping you stay connected to what matters most. KNT Newstime, 921-64 degrees. Going to get up to maybe low 80s or so today, we'll see. But welcome back to History Unfolded with Mike Stewart. And we've got Cindy Anderson in the house. Of course, she spent a lot of time in the forest with the timber industry. So she has a great eye for trees. She knows a good tree that could really produce a lot of lumber to build a house, perhaps. Things like that. You know, going on a truck. Mike brought in a 110-year-old slab of a tree. Mike, can you explain something to me? I'm expecting a tree that would be about maybe three or four feet wide. Would that be about right, normally? Four or five, probably. Maybe four or five. So this is a Douglas fir, which is very common. It's your standard two-by-four in the area. This is generally going to be a Douglas fir. And so I cut this tree down next to my mom's driveway as an example. And as you described, I cut a slab out of it. And trees, as they grow, they have growth rings every year, basically. You can tell the age of the tree. And so, literally, I had to take out a magnifying glass and a needle to count the rings on this tree because they were so tight together, so slow-growing. This is 110-plus years. That tree is, what, six inches in diameter? It is small. That is incredibly small. And as you said, this tree should be four or five feet in diameter. So what caused that? All right. What caused that? Competition. Competition. Competition. So there's only so much sunlight. There's only so much water. There's so much nutrients in the soil. And this tree fought all of its life to try and grow and be a healthy, mature tree and never will be. And this was off a driveway where there was big trees around it? I mean, you could see how it was getting kind of squeezed and stuff? Yeah, absolutely. Well, part of the soil it was growing in was part of it, yes. It is old riverbed. So there is the issue with that. But historically, the foresters tell us that before European influence in the West and the exclusion of fire, there were 40 to 50 trees per acre in the pine forests. Now, between reduction in logging and fire suppression and not having the Native American burning that they did, we're now at 1,500 to 2,000 on an average acre. That's an incredible difference. That's an incredible difference. Right. Now, Cindy's here to talk about logging and the history of logging. And I think we forget that this is the number two thing that formed Nevada County. I mean, obviously gold was big, but timber was also big. Yeah. And even as a kid, I remember going to the Washington Elementary School, watching log trucks roll through Washington. As Cindy described, there weren't still water breaks. But the Washington School District was the richest school district per capita in the state. Say that again. Say that again. I want to make sure people get this. This is the town of Washington? Little town of Washington. Per capita, our school district was the richest in the state because of timber. Wow. That is a pretty amazing stat. Every truck that rolled through that town paid tax to the school district. That paid for my education. That's awesome. I will say this. When I moved up here, the fleet, I guess if you would call that, say from Robinsons and all the industry, it was awesome how they were all over the place. And it seemed to be just part of life. Nobody was really upset by it at all. It was just part of life. Am I wrong on that? No, you're absolutely right. And as a firefighter's perspective, having those guys in the woods helped us. The roads were maintained. They were kept open for log trucks, so it made it easy for fire engines to get in there. As a young firefighter, I'd show up at a wildland and fire in the timber, and half the time there would already be a logging dozer working to try and contain that fire. And then you had folks that knew what they were doing. And then they're keeping the forest thinned. Western United States forests are not healthy. They're not in the state that they should be. And that's because of the exclusion of fire and reduction in timber harvesting. All right, Cindy, your take on that? That all sounds pretty good to me. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Resource Conservation District just finished a movie. It's called Working Lands 3. Everybody needs to watch this. You can watch it on YouTube. It's about 55 minutes long. And it explains just what Mike's talking about, how this community started with gold mining. And every mine had a sawmill because they needed that. There was not, within 15 miles of Grass Valley in Nevada City, there were very few trees here. Because they were all getting used into the mines, correct? Exactly. The mines, the building of the houses, the sidewalks, the fences. I mean, just the whole industry. And then when mining went away, the timber industry took over. And to have those guys in the woods was just such a tremendous help to keep our forest healthy, as well as our fire danger down, to keep employment and supply, really, a lot of the country with what they needed to build this country up. And this movie talks about all that. I mean, they have some wonderful people in there. There's Dorian Davidson, Joanne Fyke. I'm trying to think of her last name. Fykes Coffman. Coffman. Oh, yeah. She's wonderful. Fire was kind of like her profession. And she speaks about, you know, you drink a soda with a loved one. That's okay. But you have the whole family drinking. Nobody gets anything. And that's what's happened to our forest with our overstocking of everything. You've got brush. You've got trees. Just that movie explains very well. Scott Lindhart, which is a registered professional forester, speaks on that. Larry Ilg, he worked with Erickson's when they first started helicopter logging. So, I mean, there's a lot of history in that, and it explains a lot why we are where we are today. Okay. We know what we should do, I mean, because we've had the proven record on how well things were managed and how little fire happened. Correct. So, is it foreseeable that we can get back there, or is it just not the will to do it? It is foreseeable to get back there, but it has to go to not only the large companies like SPI, because they're in the business of growing trees. Yeah. They are not going to harm their lands in order to make a profit. So, you know, you have to figure 150-year rotation on their stuff. But you also have to include, you know, the people who buy 5 or 10 acres, or even an acre, that they have to be diligent in keeping the brush down, keeping their trees trimmed up, taking out the dead and diseased, you know, trees. Everybody's got to have some part in this. It's not, if you're a landowner, you just kind of ignore it and expect somebody else to come through. And, you know, if we can educate people on how to do this, and those programs are out there, that we will have a healthier forest, as well as healthier, you know, landowners. I think people like, you know, I've learned over the years. I came up here. I was like a, you know, Sierra Club member and saved the trees and all that stuff, because it seemed like it was the right thing to do, being a city kid that I am, outside New York City. Right. Right, coming out west. But I learned right away that that's not healthy for the forest. And you could see it. My goodness, you could see what a difference it makes when things are thinned out. Right. And how well trees do right away. Absolutely. I can remember when the whole deal of the spotted owl came out. Yeah. And I stood there at those meetings going, there's something more to this, but I cannot put my finger on it. As soon as we started having these huge fires, it's like, there it is. It's started. And this is what that was all about. Because they were killing the habitat for, like, the spotted owl, the King Fire. You know, they found, you know, birds that were tagged that could not get away from that fire. You know, and here you are trying to create a habitat for, you know, the species, and you've just blown them out of the water. Yeah, those species, am I wrong on this, that they were doing well when there was forest management? Correct. Right? That's the way the species existed. Correct. Yeah, you know, things like the spotted owl, they need the forest in order to have their nests and rear their young. But they also need the timber harvest, whether it's a clear cut or select cut, because that opens up for rats and snakes, and that's where they feed. So they're very healthy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know if there's the political will. of big cities kind of controlling things for the entire state, the way they vote for things. Exactly. That my only, I don't want to say hope, but maybe what comes out of fires like the L.A. fire down there in Pacific Palisades and such, is that this is a phenomenon that's throughout the state now. Right, right. Endless fires and stuff in San Diego County and L.A. County, Orange County, that maybe that opens up eyes and kind of takes a better look at this stuff. And some of those fires that are wind driven, there is no controlling any of that. I mean, that is a phenomenon in nature that when you have 100 mile an hour winds, as any firefighter, you can't control any of that. You just have to kind of stand back. But you do have a little bit of control over educating the public of what defensible space is, even in a town, even in a big city. All right. I will say that that tree is ridiculous. That's 110 years old. Yes, it is. That is crazy. That is a crazy looking. It's only about six inches, everybody. And it's football shaped, kind of oblong, not perfectly round. So you're saying that was from wind events and stuff? It looks like probably wind or logging. You know, once you open up an area next to a tree, they exponentially grow in those areas, you know, until something grows up next to it. You know, but it shows, you know, wind storms that, you know, cause damage to those trees through canyons or whatever it is. I mean, and you can read a tree. As a log scaler, I probably spent way too much time looking at history in those trees that man has no record of. Yeah. It's amazing what she wrote into that tree. It's almost like somebody reading your palm when she was doing that. Anyway, we're late for the break, Mike. Yes, we are. It was driving you crazy, wasn't it? He was getting all antsy over there. I'm getting better about it. That's right. Going to get a news break, weather forecast. We'll be right back. Good morning. I'm Paul Haas with a KNCO local news update. A daunting budget planning act has still resulted in delays and deferrals of critical infrastructure improvement projects for the Nevada Irrigation District. At a recent workshop, the board of directors reviewed an updated capital improvement program that staff says reflects significant reductions in planned spending while recognizing the fundamental challenge of system reliability. This past summer, the board reduced rate increases for next year, the first of five years of likely increases after already delaying implementation by six months this year. As a result, the improvement budget has been scaled back by $13 million, and board chair Chris Beerwagon noted that there's also a costly lead time for projects. That includes getting materials, completing environmental impact studies, and signing contracts. That's why in this year's budget, we opted to only raise the rates necessary to make next year's budget work, because even if we collected all that money, we can't do the project until it's shovel-ready. But even after these reductions, Beerwagon says some projects can't be postponed. That includes the Scotts Flat Spillway reconstruction project and the replacement of Lake Wildwood water treatment plant. And a new program designed to make it easier and less expensive to build accessory dwelling units has been approved by the Nevada City-City Council. At their meeting last week, City Planner Jessica Hankins told the City Council that the program features six pre-approved ADU plans to streamline the permitting and design process for construction. They would get a permit-ready plan set that includes not just elevations and floor plans that you had in your staff packet, but also fire sprinkler plans, mechanical plans, structural engineering, Title 24 energy compliance, solar, all of that. Hankins says the program would also meet the city's housing element goals. She said it would also help comply with a state mandate to support workforce and affordable housing opportunities by offering no- or low-cost plans to city property owners. Hankins said that the plans have pre-approved colors, and she noted that four of the six plans are less than 750 square feet, which means them exempt from costly development impact fees. Plans under 500 square feet also avoid school impact fees. Join us for our next local news update at the bottom of the hour. For news, traffic, and weather anytime, visit KNCO.com. I'm Paul Haas, KNCO. With the possibility of El Nino storms this winter, now is the time to make sure your home is ready. All About Gutters and Awnings installs seamless gutters that move rainwater safely away from your home, protecting your roof and foundation from costly water damage. Choose from 26 different colors, and in most cases, installation only takes one day. With leaf guard options, you'll spend less time cleaning and more time enjoying the season. All About Gutters and Awnings, protecting your home season after season. AwningsAndGutters.com Right here in our neighborhood, families are struggling to put food on the table. Interfaith Food Ministry needs your support to continue providing wholesome supplemental groceries to Nevada County residents. Visit InterfaithFoodMinistry.org and be a part of this vital mission. Your donation feeds families, fuels hope, and builds community. Please join the fight to end food insecurity. Interfaith Food Ministry, because no one should feel the hurt of hunger. Thank you for your generosity. This from the KNCO B&C ACE Home and Garden Center Weather Center. ACE is the place. Here is the forecast from the KNCO Weather Center. Mainly clear sky, overnight lows will drop down into the lower 50s. We should see lots of sunshine in the mid-70s on Sunday. Sunday night, mainly clear, low 50s. Monday, we will return to sunshine, a high near 80. Tuesday, blue skies, sunshine, a high near 80 degrees. We'll see highs run around 80 Wednesday and low 80s Thursday. For weather anytime, click on the Weather Center at KNCO.com. I'm Sally Russell in KNCO News Talk 830. Thanks for that, Sally. KNCO News Time, 937, 66 degrees. Welcome back to History Unfolded. Cindy Anderson in the house with Mike Stewart and myself. The whole thing about logging. As you said, you're a scaler. Correct. Looking at those logs, how many board feet we have. One thing we want to talk about. You get this log that's been harvested. It's going to be turned into, say, dog fur. You can't turn it into dog fur. It's dog fur, say, for that. It's going to become lumber at your local hardware lumber store. How does that happen? Is there a mathematical formula when this thing is brought to the mill and ready to go? Yes, it starts very early. If you're a property owner and you want to do a timber harvest plan, which means you want to take trees off your property, a registered professional forester has to submit a report that used to be five pages, and now it's about 500 pages. $20,000 to $30,000. For a report? For a report before you ever cut a tree. It has to go through nine different agencies through the state, like archaeology, hydrology, geology, wildlife and wild lands information. There is a whole process. If you own property, want to do this, anybody within 300 feet of your property has the right to make an opinion. The rules and laws change every year, so those RPFs have to be on top of what those things are. It's a long process. That timber harvest plan has to be posted to where anybody can look at it to the general public before it's finalized and they start cutting. Once all that stuff is done, then they have to have a licensed timber operator, like Robinson. They have to have who they're going to sell those logs to. There has to be the process of what they're going to pay per species, whether it's white fir, red fir, dug fir, sugar pine, ponderosa pine. It all comes down to what type of logging operation you're going to have. With that being said, you can do a clear cut, you can do a shaded break, you can do a salvage sale. People don't realize there is a lot that goes into this. They can't just go out and start cutting trees. Equipment, you can have anywhere from cat logging, which means there's equipment on the ground with skidders which pulls the logs in, the loaders that load them onto trucks, to a yarder operation because the ground is so steep. They can't put equipment on the ground, so they have to do cable logging, yarder logging, or skyline to where they're running these carriages that probably weigh, what, 100 pounds? Oh, probably. At least 150 pounds that these guys have to carry on their back over and hook it up to a line. Then they have to start bringing the logs in from that carriage that drops what they call chokers that go around the log to take it to the landing. You've got landing mans, you've got buckers, the guys that cut the limbs off so that it can be loaded onto a truck, cut it to length of what the specifications are for the sawmill. There's a lot that goes into it just out in the woods. Then they get them to the sawmill and they have to deck them until they're cutting all one species. They have to put sprinklers on them not only to keep the blue stain, which is in pine species, at bay, but also to make sure those log decks don't burn for fire. It goes into the mill. It's debarked, it's cut into length to go through the sawmill. It goes through the head rig, which either makes what they call a cant, which is they take the edges off it and they send it on down to what they call a gang saw, which cuts it into eight boards. Then it goes to the trim saw. The whole process goes out the sawmill, into the dry kiln. It's in there depending on the species and how much moisture is within those, how long they stay in the dry kiln. It comes out of the dry kiln. They have to what they call sticker it, put wood in between the boards so that they make sure that the airflow within the dry kiln is getting consistent. They pull it out of the dry kiln. If it's going to Home Depot, they put on a barcode on every 2x4 or 2x6 that goes to that specific place. They wrap it in like a Tyvek to keep it from- See that's on trucks, yeah. Then they ship them off either by truck or by rail. From the landowner going, I want to sell this wood on my property, right off the bat you're looking $20,000 to $30,000 whether it's taken 40 trees or taken 5,000 trees. That is- It's a big process. That is a big process. It is. Right there, I almost got a headache thinking about that much paperwork. I know the professionals are doing the paperwork. That would still be mind-boggling to me. Oh, yeah. Like I say, the laws and rules change all the time. It's so deep that people think that we just go out and cut trees. That is not the case. People like Sierra Pacific Industries, largest landowner in the United States, they are going to make sure that they're going to have stock in 100 or 125 years to go back through. They have to check their seed stock to make sure that they have superior trees that are going to create good wood. Years ago they tried doing genetics and that didn't work because the wood fiber was not up to par. Now that has changed to see what they need to restock. With the landowner, even as a private landowner, you have to replant. If you don't replant, then CAL FIRE will make sure that it gets replanted at the property owner's cost. There has to be so much of a survival rate of those trees you replant. I see. You could healthy clear, but they're still going to ask you to plant X amount of trees. Absolutely. If you ever want an example about that, Highway 20 at the Vista Point where you're up above Washington, if you look off to the north, you can see SPI patches where they've replanted and it's coming back at different stages of its life cycle. All right. It's pretty amazing, really. I actually think that's pretty good. The thing is, does it drive you crazy at all, Cindy? I just thought about this the other day because of the tariffs on Canada and we're getting so much timber from Canada. That we have to get so much timber from Canada? We don't have to. We don't have to, do we? Am I missing something? No, it's here. Yeah, it's here. We need more sawmills. I know this community had over 50 sawmills. Not big sawmills, but there were sawmills that you could take a load of logs in and they would contractual buy it depending on what they wanted to pay for it. There's Cubitch's sawmill that Tom Rowe runs and I think that that is really your only sawmill here in the community. I think so. As far as I know, except for people doing small backyard things. Right, but that's not a sawmill. Man, a sawmill is pretty incredible to take a log and saw it, whether it's a band saw or the circular saws. It's pretty incredible to run. There's never any waste of product too, right? Correct. They take everything, like you said, the cant and all that stuff that comes off. That stuff all gets used somehow. Yeah, that's where your bores come from, but your bark is either decorative or it goes into the biomass plant. The saw kerf, because you have sawdust coming off where that saw is going through the wood, is throwing sawdust out. You've got that sawdust that either goes into the biomass plant or it goes off to be made into compressed board. Yeah, particle board. All your waste is either being made for the public's consumption or it's being made for electricity. The mill in Lincoln, I believe it produces 18 megawatts of electricity, which is enough to run that sawmill and supply for 18,000 homes. Wow. These are the win-win things. We should be doing this. It seems obvious we should. I just don't know if the people have a stomach to make this happen. There's a whole industry that's built up now about paperwork, I guess, obviously, and lawyers and stuff, right? Right, absolutely. You have to look with AI today, which is one thing you have to figure. If they want input from the public, can you use AI to make opinions or does it have to be real people? See, those are those things that are coming about that now that has to be considered for the timber harvest plan because for every letter that is written in, whether email or letter, it has to be answered. Well, if it's AI generated, is that really part of the process or does that need to be curtailed and it has to be a human being that creates those letters? I mean, it's changing all the time. Wow. Constantly. Yeah, because they can put in all their criteria. You know, environmentalist, I want to protect this, I want to protect that, and here's my opinion. Right. And it spits out something, I guess. Right, absolutely. I know people have just gotten used to what our forests look like. You know, if you go back and look at photographs of this area, even in the 1960s, it was pretty clean. You could walk through a forest. Now you can't walk through a forest because of too much brush and ladder fuels. Not at all. All right. We better take a break. Yep, yep. Pay the bills, pay the bills, pay the bills. Down the home stretch here of KNCO's History Unfolded. So a quick break. We'll be right back. Never underestimate the power of a great bed. It's the key to that better night's sleep that we all crave. While the best beds in the world with top sleep technology, all designed to give you that great night's sleep, are waiting for you at the sleep shop. You know there's no better feeling than waking up completely refreshed after a great night's sleep. All the big brands with top sleep technology are at the sleep shop. Brands like Tempur-Pedic, Heirloom, Simmons, Sealy, Stearns, and Foster, just to name a few. Now it's a big decision to buy a new bed, but Roxanne and I chose the sleep shop because they're locally owned by the Miller family. They don't work on commission there, and the Millers made it very comfortable to check out all the options. And your comfort's guaranteed in riding at the sleep shop, so you're not going to make any mistakes. And the bottom line on the bottom line, no one beats their price or financing. Check out the sleep shop, and there are three great locations. Two of those are in Auburn, Highway 49 at Palm. They have a clearance center and gift store called The Nest at 3880 Highway 49. They're right here in Grass Valley. 410 Brunswick Road, right next to Safeway. Ready to brighten your day? Grass Valley Provisions is where you'll find a wide range of products designed to support your well-being. From stress relief options to healing topicals, enjoy a welcoming, relaxed space where you can browse, learn, and find what helps you refresh and recharge. At Grass Valley Provisions, they believe in giving back. Every month, a portion of their Sunday sales supports a local Nevada County nonprofit organization. September proceeds benefit the Rudiger Foundation that provides canine resources, funding, and support to local law enforcement agencies to foster community safety and connection. Visit Grass Valley Provisions' beautiful showroom on Idaho-Maryland Road in Grass Valley, open 7 days a week, 9 a.m. to 9 p.m., or shop online at gvprovisions.com. And remember to shop on Sundays to support our local nonprofits. Grass Valley Provisions, lift up your day the Grass Valley way. Hi, I'm Randy Jackson with KNCO and Star 94.1. I grew up right here in Grass Valley. I raised my family here. This community is home. And I've watched a lot of local businesses grow and become part of what makes Nevada County such a special place. My job is to help local businesses tell their stories through radio. And here's what I've learned. Great radio advertising isn't about running a commercial a few times and hoping the phone rings. It's about consistency, building recognition, and becoming a familiar name people remember and trust. Because when someone finally needs your product or service, you want your business to be the one that comes to mind. If you own or manage a local business, I'd love to hear your story and learn what you'd like to accomplish. No obligation, no pressure. Let's just sit down and talk about your business and see if radio makes sense for you. Call me at 530-272-3424. Let's make your business a name Nevada County remembers. Enjoying a delicious, colossal-sized pasty is as easy as answering a thoughtful question. You could win one of those titan-sized pasties from Robinson Enterprises. They are huge in size and massive in taste. Earn a pasty with You Make the Call in the 7 a.m. hour with another chance during the Chris Gilbert News Quiz. Get ready to win an incredible Robinson Enterprises pasty each Wednesday with KNCO News Talk 830. All right, KNCO News Time 952. 67 degrees on our way into the low 80s today on this Monday. History unfolded today. Mike Stewart in the house with Cindy Anderson. Of course, when she was talking about how to take a log, Mike, and mill it and all that stuff, she went through a litany of titles and names of people who are doing this. A choker, a slapper, a puncher. I don't know if it was cowboy terms or logging terms, but there was a lot of different terms there, huh? There's a lot of hands involved in this. There's a lot of history behind these positions. I asked Cindy to talk through some of those. I've been on the fringe of it all my life, but she was in the middle of it. Yeah, right in the middle of it. First off, you're a scaler. A log scaler, correct. Okay, so what does that mean, a log scaler? A log scaler is the person, when the trucks bring the logs into the sawmill, they take the diameters and the lengths and then take the defect out of them. That is how the landowner, the sawmill, the logger, the truck driver, that's how everybody's paid is by what you scale. You get check scaled. They come in and they make sure that you are within a certain percentage of what a very long-term log scaler is. Oh, okay. You're constantly checked. So you're up there with a measuring tape? It's what you call a scale stick. A scale stick, okay. Yeah, and it tells you like a 16-inch on any log. If it's a 20-foot log, if it's 16 inches on the small end, which is the scaling cylinder, it's got 200 board feet in it. Look at that. Yeah, if it's 16 inches on a 16-foot, it's got 160 board feet in it. Gross. Then you take out from there. Being a log scaler is one of those positions that people will try to go, well, give me a good scale on this and I'll kick you this back. It's like, no, that is not how this works because the only thing a log scaler has to go by is their reputation of being an honest person. All right, and you were good. I was okay, I think. Like I said, I spent too much time looking at stuff, but that was okay, too. Yeah, well, you're probably totally accurate. All right, so you're like the first step when that truck comes in? Comes into the sawmill, correct. All right, so next step. So from my position, actually the loader operator unloads the logs, which he's in a piece of equipment that goes up to the logs, secures the load. The truck driver has to take what they call wrappers and binders, which are the chains and the things that hold those chains down to secure that load. Yeah, okay. So the loader operator takes them off, I scale them, they sort them by species. When I was doing it, now they are pre-sorted before they come to the sawmill because it's a totally different scenario now. And then they're put into log decks. And then they may sit there for four or five months until they're sawing that species. Four or five months. Yeah, and the sprinklers, like I say, are on there for fire suppression as well as keeping the fungus at bay that if it's a bug kill, they have that fungus that rides on the back of a beetle and that's how it's introduced into the tree. Is that what was happening in the old Bohemia site where the logs were out there years ago and the water was gone? Yeah. Okay. But out in the woods, when you're a forester, your RPF is kind of like your first step. But once all the paperwork and everything is done, then you have your fallers, which is the guys that carry their equipment, a saw, gas, oil, and they'd be walking for an hour and a half to get to where they need to cut. Then they're cutting the trees. They walk an hour and a half with that equipment? Oh, absolutely. And it's not flat ground? No. You're going up and down the side of hills. And they have a bucker with them, which that's the guy, once the trees fell, then the bucker goes through and he has to make sure that whether he's cutting those trees for saw logs, which makes the two-by-fours, whether they're cutting it for peelers, which would make veneer, and there's specific information they need to know on that, or they're sending them as poles, like utility poles. They all have different values. So they're cutting limbs off, and then they get drug to what they call a landing, where they're going to be loaded out, and that's usually either with a skidder if it's not too steep of ground, and those grab onto each log or two logs and pull them into the landing. There may be a caterpillar with a blade and a winch on the back of it that will pull a half a dozen logs. Okay, I know we're going to run out of time here pretty quickly. How dangerous is this stuff? It is the most dangerous profession in the United States. That is just mind-boggling, the size of some of these things, when you're talking about pulling and scraping and dragging. I mean, it's a very unwieldy thing, I would imagine, at times. And then you get into the yarders and the skylines, which there's not that equipment, but you've got this thing that's pulling logs up in the air and taking them across a draw to get it to the landing, and they're hanging up in the air. Is this a profession that's still out there, or is it dying? Not only in California, but just in America. It is still around in this area. They have more what they call feller bunchers and heel booms. The heel booms are what load onto the trucks in the landing, rather than a wheel loader. Heel booms? Heel booms. Which they pick a log up at a time, and the one end of the log, when it's picked up, is held so that it doesn't swing around, and they load it on a truck. Can I tell you something, Cindy? You must be something in Scrabble, because you should be spelling out heel boom, and nobody would believe that's a word. And then you get into very steep ground where you're doing helicopter logging. Just like that, we're out of time. We're out of time. Again. We could have her on every two weeks. We never would stop talking. Cindy, thank you so much for coming in and sharing your knowledge and stuff. We have to stay in touch, because you have a lot of plans. We still want to do a lumber museum and stuff, right? We're working on the museum. Do you know who your guest is in two weeks? Yes, Dom Linares from the Historical Society. Very good. We could have Dom in. Mike, great show today. All the best to you. Keep that shoulder strong. Working on it. You take care of that knee, Cindy. Thank you. That does it for us. We've got ABC News up next, followed by Swap Shop and the Shopping Show here on KNCO News Talk at 8.30. --- end of transcript ---